Just wanna complain a little bit.. still seeing so much bugs in latest Umbraco 16 today.. We choose for Umbraco 16, te release new website in november, so we could later upgrade to 17 and our customer would have the latest shiny version of Umbraco. But when working with it on daily base, we truly regret our decisission and we truly ask ourselves if we should downgrade the entire codebase to Umbraco 13, because Umbraco 16 doesn't even seem to be a alpha version of a good product. 🙁

I'm curious what issues you are running into. Yes some small quality of life things are missing, but I'm actually pretty happy with Umbraco 15 and 16.

a lot of waiting, properties seem to be appearing late after page refresh, all of a sudden 404 errors, no feedback after sorting, very late feedback after publishing, copy/paste of blocklists is terrible, listview settings don't do anything etc etc

Hmm I haven't had issues with that so far to be honest

Running with the latest build is always going to be a rocky ride. Things are changing, and documentation is very limited. You could downgrade to v13 for stability, and probably wise if you are only using core functionality, as the upgrade back to v17 should be seamless - This is strategy I use for my own sites.

It depends if you extend the backoffice. But if you have just Umbraco and you're not using nested content and macro's, the upgrade shouldn't be that hard

Yeah, Razor and Views and Controllers should behave the same. There's some small changes in Culture/Languages - but if you're not using localization, then you are safe.

And if you have UmbracoAuthorizedApiControllers, you need to change them a little to the management API

the most annoying this is when I'm using my site locally, when I open a node, I see just a part of the properties.. In the beginning it scared me: what happened to my precious properties.. Now I now I sometimes have to wait for 20 secs for them to appear on the screen.. Also the content tree sometimes appears empty.. In both cases I don't see any loader or load activity, so it's very confusing in my opinion.

Hi Remko, we have experienced some similar things and our decision to go for 16 was the same as yours. Completely understand the difficulty in rearchitecting everything in the CMS interface but hitting a lot of niggles and gremlins especially on a large website.

Might be worth creating an issue on the Github with your experiences? You might have ran into things that aren't on the radar of the team yet

Can't imagine this list of basic functionality isn't on the radar yet.. with just a little bit of clicking you'd see it all happening

I agree that some things can have a bit more polishing, but I have to admit that I do not share your experience with things being slow.

I'm not sure what's happening @Remko - but it's not really the experience other people seem to be having! The slowness seems like a local problem on your machine maybe, hard to tell. If you have any other issues, bugs that you can reproduce, please just always put them on the issue tracker! We can't fix what we don't know about and from this post we seem to have a lot of bugs we don't know about 😅

well I've spoken more people who experience the same thing. actually. When it comes to Umbraco 16 issues, it seems there isn't much a priority to fix things. I've posted some already on forum and github. I know you are busy fixing a bunch of errors that already posted on github and I know you might judge for a lot of those bugs they are not critical, so you won't include those in next releases, but for me those tiny bugs cause a lot of frustrating, when working with it on daily base. I'm sorry to say.

I would love to know more, do you have links to GitHub issues and forum posts?

@Remko I hear you. The phrase "death by a thousand cuts" comes to mind. To echo what others have said, please do report any issues on GitHub, no matter how trivial or obvious the bug or missing feature is... and do post multiple issues, the more granular the better! Just the other week I asked someone to submit a bug report for what they thought was a trivial issue, and the subsequent discussion + investigation uncovered a deeper issue with the extension registry (which we fixed) and doubled the efficiency of that particular code. For an open source project, issues on the tracker are the currency. As it becomes a tangible thing that can be used in the CMS team's upcoming sprints/workflows. Whereas posting on Discord will eventually disappear into the void.

Hey @Remko have you tried in a browser without any extensions? We have noticed some slow downs in the back office and painfully narrowed it down to browser extensions. Just sounds very familiar apologies if I am wrong! https://github.com/umbraco/Umbraco-CMS/issues/19728#issuecomment-3084104140

I just had a collegue with exactly the same issue: a browser plugin (in this case Postman interceptor) that would make the backoffice practically unusable. I showed him the performance on my computer and browser. And after ruling out the internet connection, we found out it was the browser plugin. It really made a night-and-day difference!

i tried different browsers and incognito mode.. but it made no difference.. for me it's especially when working locally, on our test environment it's a lot faster.

Do you have a slow local machine? I don't recognize this from my local machine, even running in debug mode...

it's not a slow local machine.. but it's external database, thats right

External database can make a huge difference. I mean, even if you have a 4ms ping to the database, that's still more than 4 times higher than a local database or a database right next to the webserver.

I know some dev teams use remote (azure) databases as standard and I cannot understand it - it's so much slower, unusably slow IMO.

But then wouldn't you expect to see the same with Umbraco 13? Or does Umbraco 15/16 do a lot more database calls compared to before? Also would think that caching should make it better afterwards